(no subject)

[austin_tycho]

File this under 'didn't really think about it before'...

A guy got caught videotaping nekkid women at Hippie Hollow and busted. Hub found this, and I said 'I wonder if this guy taped me.' He responded with 'ooh, yeah, neat' when I was meaning it in the 'eww, yuck' way. Which brings up an interesting point. I think it's fairly common for a woman to hold the idea of a guy wacking off to ill-got pictures or whatever of her with some disgust (yes, I know not all women feel that way, you don't have to point it out to me- I'm talking about the average woman in the US here). Non-consensual voyeurism is creepy. Hub wonders why, when women seem to generally be so hung up about their appearances, would they have any problem with the idea of a guy being sexually aroused by looking at her, even if he's a stranger. At first I speculated that women tend to see their appearance as a commodity, and view someone benefiting from it in that way in the same way a doctor gets irritated when some stranger asks them for medical advice at a party. But no, the typical woman would feel violated, which is different from just being irritated at a cheapskate. Is it because women tend to be more in control of their sexuality and don't like the idea of not being in control of sexual behavior related to them? I remembered a local DJ talking about how he had that poster of Farah Fawcett in the 70's. When he met her, he apparently told her he had wanked to that poster a lot when he was a teen- and she got offended and threw him off the set. Now, assuming he didn't state this in a completely crass way, why would this information otherwise offend her? She can't be surprised by this notion, and in fact it probably paid her bills for many years. So why the grief? Fact is, it's not logical but it's not surprising either. I do wonder why it's so.

Comments

[kickadee.livejournal.com]

I think there's an added threat of more nonconsensual sexual stuff in there. I bet a lot of guys would be more squicked by a man wanking to a picture of them because the guy would have a better chance at being able to physically attack them than a woman would. Maybe the hippie hollow guy would never actually attack someone, but the attitude of secretly videoing people would make me not want to come across him alone.

And it's hard for me to imagine coming out and telling someone you don't personally know that you've been wanking to their pictures without it being crass.

[austingoddess.livejournal.com]

It's non-consensual - that's the sticking point for me. You are expending mental energy thinking about having sex with me, and while it's not happening physically, it sure as hell is happening on some level.

[idadebeautreux.livejournal.com]

Ditto on the non-consensual notion. The fact remains that, even if it is "just a photo," the photo was taken without the woman's knowledge or consent. Whacking off to a illegally/illicitly obtained photo of a woman is, in a way, rape - or at least acting upon sexual desire that the male who took the photos would probably like to enact upon the woman herself. And if he would not ask permission for photos, why would he ask permission for the woman herself? It cheapens the woman, making her nothing more than a sex toy.

Not, of course, that there's anything wrong with sex toys :) It's just that women are more than just sex toys, and a guy wanking off to a photo of her is using her as a sex toy.

As for Farah Fawcett, I'd say that, even as a sex symbol who must KNOW that this was happening and that a good amount of her livelihood came from sales of similar items, it still is pretty crass, vulgar, and unwarranted to air that sort of private information, particularly at a first meeting.

[burgundy.livejournal.com]

Building on what other people have said - I think most men would never even consider that their sexuality might not belong to them, but for women, that's something we face regularly. There's the feeling that we're around for other people's pleasure or satisfaction, rather than our own. Even things like whistling and catcalls - I'm not here for your entertainment, if I'm dressed sexy it's because I want me to be sexy, it has nothing to do with you (except in a few cases, and I promise I'll let you know). There's something... I don't know what word I want to use, grasping? Some sense of entitlement, that some men seem to have about women and women's bodies and women's sexuality, and it really disgusts me and creeps me out.

I don't have any problem with the idea of someone jerking off to a commercial poster, but it seems kind of intrusive to tell someone something like that. Like, why do you think she wants to know that? I can see that feeding back into the entitlement - that because you found her sexually exciting, you have some connection with her, or she must be gratified by it, or something, in a way that goes beyond just telling her "wow, I had such a thing for you when I was younger."